Author: Don (---.dsl.gulftelephone.net)
Date: 06-28-02 21:25
Mona said:
If you look at Islam's history, You will find that unlike the crusades who ravished and killed and tortured anyone who was unwilling to convert to Christianity, the Islamic wars of expansion where as peacful as they can be.
Don replies:
Mona I think you may not be looking at this from a factual standpoint. You are correct that the "Christians" Crusaders (nothing about their conduct was Christian) did kill many during the Crusades of 1099 and continued for some 200 years. However Muslims, under the cloak of Isalm killed over 1 million christians in the North african and Eyptian campaigns. and 1400 years later Saudia Arbia (America's FRIEND) was just voted the "worst persecutor of Christians" in the world. Christians have continuely sought forgiveness for the actions of their forefathers. Can we say such of followers of Islam?
Mona Said:
They offered the people that if they do not want to convert to Islam they do not have to but they have to pay taxes( since they won't be joining the armies) so in a way they could choose if they wanted to join or not.
Don Replies:
Again, not quite accurate but I understand your point. Let me share with you an excerpt from the Quran itself:
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, of the people of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission and feel themselves subdued." at-Taubah 9:29
It says FIGHT until subdued!!! Jizya means a tax imposed upon them
And the Hadith (the second most holy book of Isalm) says (Mohammed speaking to the) Jews "The earth belongs to Allah and His apostle, and I want to expel you from this land, so, if anyone owns property, he is permitted to sell it. " Hadith vol. 4:392
You can sell it BUT YOU HAVE TO GO!!!
Mona said:
Unfortunatly, a few bad apples had given a lot of Muslims a bad name, We are
a peaceful religion and is Muhammed's teachings are very similar to the teaching of Jesus Christ.
Don replies:
Thank you for attesting that you are of a peaceful nature. Isalm however is not merely a religion but a way of life, a government law, and a measure of how one must live. Please help me understand how a way of life that you say is peaceful subscribes to kill as outlined within its own surahs of the Quran and also the Hadith. May I give you but a few examples:
Quran Quotes
When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way. God is forgiving and merciful. Sura 9:5
at-Taubah 9:5
Strike terror (into the hearts of) the enemies of God and your enemies. Surah 8:60 al-Anfal 8:60
Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and God will punish, (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame. Surah 9:14 at-Taubah 9:14
I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God. Surah 8:12-17 al-Anfal 8:12-17
Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship will become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrongdoers. Sura 5:51
al-Ma’idah 5:51
Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate. Sura 9:73 at-Taubah 9:73
Fight against such of those to whom the Scriptures were given as believe neither in Allah nor the Last Day, who do not forbid what Allah and His apostle have forbidden and do not embrace the true faith until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued. Sura 9:29 at-Taubah 9:29
Mohammed is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another. Sura 48:29 Al-Fath 48:29
Let those who would exchange the life of this world for the hereafter, fight for the cause of Allah; whether they die or conquer, We shall richly reward them. Sura 4:74 an-Nisa’ 4:74
Fight for the sake of Allah those that fight against you, but do not attack them first. Allah does not love the aggressors. Kill them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. But do not fight them within the precincts of the Holy Mosque unless they attack you there; Sura 2:190-1 al-Baqarah 2:190-191
Believers, why is it that when it is said to you "March in the cause of Allah" you linger slothfully in the land? Are you content with that life in preference to the life to come? Few indeed are the blessings of this life, compared to those of the life to come. Sura 9:38 at-Taubah 9:38
Whether unarmed or well equipped, march on and fight for the cause of Allah with your wealth and your persons. Sura 9:41 at-Taubah 9:41
Ye (Muslims) are the best of peoples, evolved for mankind... Surah 3:110 Al-Imran 3:110
If any one desires a religion other than Islam, never will it be accepted of him. Surah 3:85
Al-Imran 3:85
And fight them on, until there is no more tumult (seduction) or oppression, and there prevail justice, and faith in God (and the religion becomes Islam). Surah 2:193 al-Baqarah 2:193
And if you are slain, or die in the way of Allah, forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass." Surah 3:157 Al-Imran 3:157
Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, (which is Islam that abolishes all other religions ) of the people of the Book, (meaning the Jews and the Christians ) until they pay the Jizya (the tax imposed upon them) with willing submission and feel themselves subdued. (with humiliation and submission to the government of Islam.) 9:29 . (Commentary in parenthesis is from the Tafsir Al-Jalalein. i.e., Al-Jalalein Interpretation of the Koran.) at-Taubah 9:29
Hadith Quotes (Hadith is the second most important writing in Islam, following the Quran)
Narrated Abdullah: Allah's Messenger said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Messenger, cannot be shed except in three cases: in Qisas (equality in punishment) for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (Apostate) and leaves the Muslims." Bukhari, volume 9, #17
Narrated Ali, "Whenever I tell you a narration from Allah's messenger, by Allah, I would rather fall down from the sky, then ascribe a false statement to him, but if I tell you something between me and you, (not a Hadith), then it was indeed a trick (i.e., I may say things just to cheat my enemy). No doubt I heard Allah's messenger saying, "During the last days there will appear some young foolish people, who will say the best words, but their faith will not go beyond their throats (i.e. they will leave the faith) and will go out from their religion as an arrow goes out of the game. So, wherever you find them, kill them, for whoever kills them shall have reward on the Day of Resurrection. Bukhari volume 9, #64
I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me (see Bukhari Vol. I, p. 13).
Mohammed said, "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah." Hadith vol. 4:196
Mohammed also said, "Know that paradise is under the shades of the swords." Hadith vol 4:73
Mohammed said, "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him." Hadith vol. 9:57
Mohammed said: "No Muslim should be killed for killing a Kafir (infidel). " Hadith vol. 9:50
Mohammed said to the Jews "The earth belongs to Allah and His apostle, and I want to expel you from this land (the Arabian Peninsula), so, if anyone owns property, he is permitted to sell it. " Hadith vol. 4:392
Mohammed's last words were: "Turn the pagans (non-Muslims) out of the Arabian Peninsula." Hadith vol. 5:716
Mohammed once was asked: what is the best deed for the Muslim next to believing in Allah and His Apostle? His answer was : "To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause" Al Bukhari vol. 1:25
Mohammed was quoted as saying : "I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah" Al Bukhari vol. 4:196
Mohammed also said, "The person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to paradise (if he is killed)." Al Bukhari vol. 1:35.
Thanks for your openness
Don
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